Conversations in Cocoa
Conversations in Cocoa
A Conversation with Ketaki Churi
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A Conversation with Ketaki Churi

On Indian cacao and the prospect of introducing a near 1.4 billion public to the source

{A note on this episode: recorded in January 2022 with a charming cat in the background. For return subscribers, you all know I’m rather verbose, keep reading for 1500+ words or dive-in immediately to the audio above and quick links to connect with Ketaki @LetTheArtSpeak on Instagram for more details on the course, and tag me (@wkndchocolate &/or @LaurenOnTheWKND) if you’re enjoying or pondering your journey in chocolate further with these episodes brought to you on the wknd. Photo and art courtesy of Ketaki Churi.}


No one working or hoping to work with cacao or chocolate should feel shameful for not seeing cacao in person. I’ve heard chocolate pundits exclaim—and I’m paraphrasing—that it’s ridiculous for people to hold positions or seek careers in the cacao/chocolate world if they haven’t been to origin. I honestly find this a classist, ableist and presumptuous stance, supposing that to fall in love with a subject, become knowledgeable about it, or work within it, you’d have to consider airplanes and layovers, canoes and taxis, babysitters and/or caretakers, and so on. For a number of people, it is not an easy or available choice. For some learners there are libraries and webinars, for others—including myself—it has been an incredible privilege to step foot on the crunchy variegated detritus, sneak under delicate unfolding flowers and ornamental-esque cherelles, watch the branch dimorphism from underneath pruned canopies, and cup within a palm cacao pods that seemingly each speak with their own unique diphthong. It may be that on such trips the witness experiences firsthand that not all is photogenic and suitable for catchy “reels”; that blights are more pervasive than farm managers and agronomists would like, leaving black and white pockmarks on otherwise dazzling colored surfaces, and you probably hurled something—maybe your lunch—as the 4x4 meandered :gently: towards the cacao drying station. The irony on the word dry, as two tropical storms have passed overhead in the last 48 hours and your skin maintains a persistent dew.

Some may hold the fortune to live within reach of such activities, or bear the responsibility to sustain such efforts, or to have grown up in regions where cacao’s boundless impact on social order and trade are manifest. With the gifts of lushness and being near the Equator, they also hold the misfortune of dealing with rampant concern for mosquito-borne diseases, instabilities, and more frequently, climate disasters. (As with everything, there is joy, beauty, love and laughter too.) Certain populations may not be able to consider such travel to these locations without guarantees of particular medical care or accessibility, and without so, are entirely off the table. I certainly didn’t expect to endure an emergency appendectomy days after visiting cacao groves (nor am I insinuating that travel was the culprit), but I thank my lucky 5-petal-starred flowers that we had a credit card on-hand to pay upfront for the surgery, hospital stay, and attention I needed for the next 8 days. I am very careful to project upon anyone that it’s their obligation to visit farm-level. On the contrary, I’d love to see more opportunities for “reverse origin trips,” facilitating the arrival of materials to produce chocolate and value-added items in cocoa growing regions, and—if so desired by traveling parties—visits of farmers and producers to manufacturing and retail sites abroad. Have you ever noticed how welcoming and accommodating cooperatives are to visits from outsiders, yet what of vice versa?

While I would be humbled by a trip to see theobroma cacao trees again and all of the flora and fauna that surround them—and I must say today’s episode has tempted me—there is much to consider regarding impact level. As well as my own contribution to carbon emissions and community through such travel—for what purpose does it serve and who receives the benefaction? Benefactor comes from Latin, bene facere ‘(to) do good’, and I’d like to formalize that on my next visits (if they were to come to pass), I am not the only beneficiary.

The rise of local agro-tourism as a means of food systems education, whether here in southern Spain via ‘oleoturismo’ at family-led olive oil mills, ancient wheat varieties cultivated in Turkey, shea butter in Ghana, or cacao orchards and tree-to-bar chocolate workshops tapping into national or neighboring visitors, is a welcome consideration for a population majorly force-fed industry with nearly every transaction and meal. Seeing cacao in person can be transcendental, ineffable—although I’m trying to do it justice here, and I hope that if you can, you will have the opportunity to extol it for yourself. Maybe that’s at your city’s botanical gardens? Even if there is no long-haul travel related at all—try on the boots of an agricultural worker for a day…or an entire harvest season, in any commodity for that matter. Ask thorough questions, review your sourcing partners methods and practices, engage with academic lectures on food topics at a nearby college. Collect berries—not for your next cake topping or picnic, but from the perspective of a day-laborer or someone running daily farm operations. What is it like to be awake before sunrise, bending over often, carrying things, and on your feet for an entire workday? Again, even if you can’t physically do this, visualize it. The work of the United Farm Workers of America, showing faces and realities behind #WeFeedYou, is a powerful campaign to familiarize consumers with the individuals responsible for the perfectly waxed, packaged, tied and sticker-applied products we consume.

While within the last few days citizens have found themselves on the doorstep of war in Europe, all the extra noise can feel hollow and futile, but as I see bombed apartment facades and targeted fields of agricultural areas (Spain imports 70% of its sunflower oil from the Ukraine), what frightens me along with the sadness of the lives lost in vain, the craziness of imperialism and senselessness of invasion, is how quickly the green disappears and the smokestacks taint the air. How fragile the landscape is against such strikes, and how everything turns to camouflaged mud—countrysides and military jumpsuits alike. And on the other end, how sure I am grass buds will rise again. That when we dream of regrowth, we wish for fertility, rolling green-scapes and far-reaching pools of blue. The true mystery and magic of the farm-scape is the coalescence of harvest and happenstance, intentionality with wildness—as much ambition as you put into it, you are not entirely in control. You must have faith in life. When I feel ultimately hopeless for where our world is heading, I like to think we can try to imagine the oases that will set us on a path towards feeding each other and communities; harbors for sheltering life. Today on the podcast, the vision of one such young person who wants to share this genesis moment with others: Ketaki Churi of Rasasvada Artisan Chocolate.

In this episode she told me about the Marathi word शेतीप्रधान देश = to take pride in farming. She was raised with the knowledge that they come from agrarian country/backgrounds, even as large populations of city dwelling residents settle into opposite actualities. From her own experience in Mumbai to the call of greenery in Karnataka, the desire for people to use their hands, to breathe unpolluted air, to make brownies from scratch, continues to encourage Ketaki that Indians wish to connect to their birthrights.

Known as the doyen of Hindustani classical music, Bhimsen Gururaj Joshi, one of the greatest Indian vocalists from Karnataka (the state also where the Varanashi farm is), is quoted having said “sing in your own voice rather than imitating mine.” I see this for cacao as well; each country that by colonial force—uprooted and carried or through purposeful cultivation—and now continued by choice or dependency, adapts production at their own capacity (values, resources, government, and so on), dances with it to their own tune. That’s diversity. That’s cacao and chocolate with flavors of terroir and storytelling embedded within. In southern India those are chocolates with inclusions of jackfruit, mangoes and bananas, rather than hazelnuts and raspberries; such as Ketaki discovered at Naviluna—Indian flavors paraded over pastry school textbooks suggestions. That’s a dessert menu unfettered by outside influence. For her, that was the realization of cacao growing in her home country. That’s empowerment, that’s adaptation. The diaspora of the Indian subcontinent are dispersed throughout the world, but increasingly there’s a story of homegrown Indian cacao to tell, stories of locally processed (and prideful) chocolate over those of multinationals giants, of versatile machines that converted for this industry have completely changed the international landscape of chocolate making. India’s story matters, as do the near 1.4 billion dreams contained within, and aside from its personal telling, it’s enabling the telling of others’ stories. Others belonging to those tales that may never visit the green coconut lined entrances of cacao forests filled with aromas of black pepper and nutmeg—that won’t necessarily require a plane ticket, only a tasting to transport them.


Themes discussed/notes from this episode:
+ Young people getting back to their roots
+ 4th wave of coffee and similarity to cacao/chocolate
+ Potential of the major cacao growing states of south Indian cacao; Andhra Pradesh, Kerala, Tamil Nadu, and Karnataka (where the harvest is May-June, & Oct, Nov, Dec)
+ Covid’s impact on new experimentation; both with chocolate making startups and fermentation centers at farm level
+ Historical bulk purchasing from Cadbury and Campco
+ Complicated topics of job creation; adding here an article on climbing temperatures, displacement and labor reallocation in India
+ Wet grinders—initially designed for idli and dosa batters—and the rise of small-batch chocolate making with access to this technology
+ Alternative sugars local to the region such as dates, coconut sugar, and jaggery

More about the workshop and farmstay:
In partnership with Varanashi Organic Farms, they are conducting a tree-to-bar chocolate making workshop in Dakshina Kannada, Karnataka. If you love being around trees and eating chocolate consider joining them for this rare experience, or attending at a latter date.

Upcoming dates March 1-5, 2022
Registration form: forms.gle/5xoSevdZZQQ8o5LHA
Connect with Ketaki directly on Instagram


As always, if you have thoughts about this episode or piece, I can be reached on IG @laurenonthewknd and Twitter @wkndchocolate.

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Discussion about this podcast

Conversations in Cocoa
Conversations in Cocoa
Host Lauren Heineck is curious about cocoa and chocolate. She interviews informed, interesting and ingenious people involved with the 'food of the Gods', and also shares recordings of her writings.